Texas A&M’s Justin Seely on Navigating the Draft | MLB Draft Podcast
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Episode Summary
Seeking qualified advice is the best way to remove emotion from the upcoming business decision you will be faced with when deciding to sign with the MLB team that ultimately drafts you. In this episode we sit down with Texas A&M University Recruiting Coordinator Justin Seely who shares experiences and lessons from players and families who have gone through the MLB Draft process over his last 11 years.
Coach Seely has had a front row seat to watch over 60 of his players from Texas A&M get drafted and receive over $37,000,000 in signing bonuses. He has also been involved with numerous others who had committed and signed at Texas A&M that were ultimately drafted out of high school and joined the professional ranks immediately. His insider’s perspective gives a unique view into the decisions that families face and the successes that he has seen.
Properly educating yourself and seeking qualified advice is the best way to remove emotion from the upcoming business decision you will be faced when deciding on whether to sign with an MLB team or attending college. While we often hear from families and agents that “we don’t want to put the cart before the horse” or that “hiring a wealth management team costs you leverage with teams”, this episode will show you that those lines of thinking are incorrect and that you need to fill your cart with knowledge and education to actually gain leverage and better prepare for making the most important decision of your life.
AWM Capital's Will McGuffey and Travis Chick interview Coach Seely and cover topics and questions like:
(00:35) Coach Seely’s background and experience navigating the draft
(3:38) How to properly value yourself as a player
(5:35) When should I start looking for financial advice, and who should I look to for that advice? How do I better educate myself about the financial implications of becoming a professional now?
(7:34) Where should I look for information about the business decision I am about to make?
(10:16) The importance of removing emotion from the decision making process
(11:23) What have players in my situation done that has helped them be successful?
(15:28) How do I place a value on the university that I plan on attending?
(21:28) How can I avoid mistakes in the MLB Draft process that will impact my life?
(25:59) What is the College Education Plan offered by MLB?
(29:30) Important qualities and experience in the professionals that a player surrounds themselves with when seeking advice on the MLB Draft
(33:05) Who has worked with people in your situation? Who understands what your career actually looks like?
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+ Read the Transcript
Travis Chick (00:00): Hey everybody. Welcome back to the MLB Draft Podcast. I'm your host Travis chick and I'm joined by the newest member of our team at AWM Capital here, making his podcast debut. Please welcome Will McGuffey to the show. Will, how are you today?
Will McGuffey (00:12): Doing great, man. Looking forward to this.
Travis Chick (00:14): Good. Yeah. Me too, and I'm especially excited for this episode because we get the opportunity to interview one of the best Division One recruiters in the country. Also, please welcome to the show, Texas A&M coach Justin Seely. Coach welcome to the show.
Justin Seely (00:29): Man. Thank you, Travis. That's a introduction my mom would be very proud of. So, thank you for that.
Travis Chick (00:35): Well, I'm sure your mom's proud. I'm sure you've made Texas A&M proud. And that's actually one of the reasons I'm so excited to have you on here today because I think you're perfect for this podcast today, and because so many draft hopefuls out there going through this. What is going through the draft mean? What is going through recruiting mean? And if you look back over the last, say 10 years of what you guys have done there at Texas A&M it's pretty remarkable how much it relates to the draft. As I look back, some of the information that I specifically want to highlight is, from 2011 to 19 you guys have had over 60 players drafted. And on the financial side, which is where we're going to lean a little bit of the focus to today. There's accounts for over $37 million in signing bonuses. And what's even more remarkable about that to me is that it doesn't even take into consideration, all those kids that you signed that didn't make it to campus because they got some big bonuses.
Justin Seely (01:33): Right? Yeah. Yeah-
Will McGuffey (01:35): So-
Justin Seely (01:37): .... The process that we go through starts a long, long time before, I think, you guys would get involved or professional baseball would get involved and then that last year of their career, I mean, there's a lot that gets thrown at them at that point. And I think that we'll touch on a lot of that, but how prepared guys are for that last year for their sea-
Travis Chick (02:03): Yeah.
Justin Seely (02:03): ... Or even for when they're in their junior season of college, they're obviously a lot more prepared. But even at that point, there's still some lack of knowledge at that point. So, it is definitely a whirlwind. Measuring baseball is like Las Vegas.
Travis Chick (02:20): Right?
Justin Seely (02:21): They own the casinos, they know the rules to the game-
Travis Chick (02:24): And they make the rules. Oh, yeah.
Justin Seely (02:26): ... They make the rules and we're all the people that are going in there to go play the games and some may win big, but most do not. And-
Travis Chick (02:35): Yeah.
Justin Seely (02:35): ... Probably the best way to look at it. You need to be educated on what you're doing.
Travis Chick (02:39): Yeah. You know what, I'm actually really glad that's where you started this off and that's where I really wanted to focus off. For so many of this elite level talent, typically, like you said, the recruiting starts with the college coaches. They're the ones seeing them the first, the earliest in their career. I think, really once you guys identify them as elite talent, that's when the agents come in right after you guys.
Justin Seely (03:03): Yeah.
Travis Chick (03:05): And for me, when an agent comes in and identifies the reality that this is a business decision, it's going to be a business decision for them. Because when you start talking about an agent, you're hiring somebody to help you make what ultimately is a financial decision. So-
Justin Seely (03:19): Right.
Travis Chick (03:19): For me first, maybe will touch on how you've seen some of these families get the information that they're making. And then what are some of the things that you've seen have helped them be so successful in that decision process?
Justin Seely (03:38): Backtracking from the beginning, you set the market. Well, let me back up, the player sets the market. Right? And we put a value to the market based off of where they decide to commit and who makes that decision on who offers them. So, their market value starts really at a very young age. It's a big decision to them. But to them, they probably don't quite consider the weight of that decision at that point. And then there's a long gap between literacy of what you're going to... You've already set your market value. There's a large gap between-
Travis Chick (04:21): Correct.
Justin Seely (04:24): ... What the reality of that is. Right? Man, it's a strange, strange process that we go through. And it's a little silly that we recruit guys at the age that we do.
Justin Seely (04:38): I think it is a little silly and a little fool-hearted to think that we know everything at that age, but truth of the matter is, is if we don't make decisions at that point then somebody else will. So you end up missing out on some players if we don't. So yeah, I would just say the financial literacy part of it, the agent part of it. The agent, to me... Excuse me. Pardon me. The advisor part of it from our stand point.
Travis Chick (05:07): Yeah. We got to get that language right. Yeah.
Justin Seely (05:10): Yeah. The education of the finance does not come in with an advisor to me until we get down to the last little bit. And it's more they're recruiting.
Travis Chick (05:23): Yeah.
Justin Seely (05:23): Right after we make that decision with players. And that player makes decision with us. They start recruiting more than they start probably-
Travis Chick (05:32): Teaching.
Justin Seely (05:33): ... Yes. There you go. That's the right word.
Will McGuffey (05:35): Do you think that causes any issues as far as the financial literacy coming in so late into the process and there's so much going around that last year when you're talking about, "Hey, I'm actually signing at my university. And now I'm going through this draft process of... Hey, what is my value?" Do you think there's too much information that is brought to the table too late? Do you think there is a point in time where more information can be better understood earlier-
Justin Seely (05:58): Yes.
Will McGuffey (05:59): ... And think there's a gap in actual information out there? Is there enough information to help these families make informed decisions throughout these processes?
Justin Seely (06:07): No. There's not enough information for them to make an informed... You need people that deal with this on a daily basis. This is a very unique business that we're in, that it's not like you go to LinkedIn and you put your profile on there and then the St. Louis Cardinals say, "Yeah, we like you." That's not the way it works. Minor-leaguers don't have a union. They don't have a whole lot of rights. A lot of people backing them. So, I mean, in that last year reference in what you're saying, Will is, I believe kids and families are drinking through a fire hose at that-
Travis Chick (06:50): No doubt.
Justin Seely (06:50): ... All the information that they're trying to absorb... You guys are professionals, you know what you're doing, you know what's in your head. You guys talking to them, that's just everyday language to you-
Travis Chick (07:02): Yeah.
Justin Seely (07:02): ... But to most families, this is like drinking through... I know how I am. Most people will nod their head and go, yeah, I understand that, without a true understanding of really what they're receiving in terms of information. It's a never ending process. Right?
Travis Chick (07:22): True.
Justin Seely (07:22): The job of educating kids, I think even in schools, when it comes to finance literacy-
Travis Chick (07:28): No doubt.
Justin Seely (07:29): ... Top of that, you're going to start making huge life-changing decisions to your senior year of high school, which I would not-
Travis Chick (07:34): Yeah. It's interesting that you go down that because one of the things that we hear quite a bit is... On the business decision. Agents are notoriously, like you said, recruiting and protective of the guys that they get. Right?
Justin Seely (07:50): Right.
Travis Chick (07:50): And I actually said this on a previous podcast, I think the reality is a lot of agents, they don't want to go down that financial side yet because historically they see a lot of unqualified people helping these players. That's not going to actually lead them to make the best financial decision. So, what that ultimately leads to is it leads to this closed off, "Hey, we're going to be very reactive to this decision." And so, what a lot of agents end up saying is, "Hey, wait until you sign." And they've actually used the term, "Because that signals to the market that you want to sign." Which I just think is crazy because if you're hiring an advisor, which is actually an agent like, to me, that's signaling to the market that you're exploring the opportunity to sign. What would you tell players making that decision about being proactive versus reactive?
Justin Seely (08:44): I mean, ask as many questions as you can. Don't just settle for, "Hey, let's just wait until-
Travis Chick (08:51): Okay. I'll go to the draft first. You are making a life-decision. This is how this works. The Toronto Blue Jays have the third pick of the draft. Let's just say-
Justin Seely (09:02): Yeah.
Travis Chick (09:03): ... Call you and you have a couple of minutes to make a life-changing decision-
Justin Seely (09:07): And emotional life-changing decision.
Travis Chick (09:10): That's right. And you're offered a ton of money right here, but you've also got the Braves on the other line saying, "Hey, we're at the fifth pick. If you can wait, we may be able to put together a better package for you." And you're having to make this decision all within five minutes. And if you are not prepared for this, you are going to lose a ton of money number one and if you are waiting and.... Okay, I know now I'm talking about the third or fifth pick. But let's say you're not the third or the fifth pick.
Justin Seely (09:48): Right.
Travis Chick (09:48): Right. Now I'm trying to make a decision about whether to go to college or whether to sign. And I have no background on what I'm supposed to do. Or we've just tried to shove it all in, in the last two weeks, whenever my season's over-
Justin Seely (10:05): Yeah.
Travis Chick (10:05): ... It's like you're lost. You're losing, the casino is going to win in that.
Justin Seely (10:13): There's a reason everything is in gold in casino. Right?
Travis Chick (10:16): That's right.
Will McGuffey (10:16): There's something that you said there about... Y'all mentioned the emotional decision. For those of y'all that don't know. And obviously coach and Travis know my background as an attorney and previously working as an advisor and an agent. One of the key thought processes that throughout the spring that we used to take families through was, "Hey, let's do everything now." In advance of those last couple of weeks so that when it comes down to the last week and you're actually having those discussion, there is no emotion. It's a pure business decision. Because when you get caught up in the emotion of Major League Baseball teams actually calling you to pick your name, to take you in the draft, to offer you an amount of money that that seems like a large amount and life-changing, but you can't even define life changing and you get caught up in the emotion.
Will McGuffey (11:02): That's when people tend to make mistakes. And-
Travis Chick (11:05): Mm-hm (affirmative).
Will McGuffey (11:07): ... Unfortunately, the decision whether to go to college or go to professional baseball, absolutely will shape the rest of your life. And it's something that if you use emotion in that decision-making process, you're probably going to make the wrong decision and it's going to shape your life positively or negatively.
Travis Chick (11:22): Yeah.
Will McGuffey (11:23): And you need to really understand why you're making that decision before you do it. I think that the education component is so important to these guys at an early age. And coach, let me ask you a couple of things. When you've seen players that have either gone in the draft and been successful in that decision or come to campus and have been successful in that decision. Can you give us a little bit more insight on like, what was their actual education process? Like the guys you said, "Hey, this was a good process." What did that look like? Or what have you learned when those players and their families had good information and were unemotional and made the right decisions either whether they showed up or whether they did not show up on campus?
Justin Seely (12:06): Right. So, I'll use Asa Lacy who we had last year. That was, I think the fourth pick of the draft. So, in high school Acer's family, and they got to a point where they were comfortable with a number and they never wavered from that number. And they had that number to the point that you're making. They had that number well in advance-
Will McGuffey (12:30): Sure.
Justin Seely (12:32): ... And a well in advance of the draft so that they got comfortable with it. They stuck with it, they knew it, there wasn't the back and forth discussion of well, this or that, or what about this? And what about if it's this organization or that organization, because this is the game that gets played? They just got really, really comfortable with that number. If they had got to the number, he's gone and we knew it. That was it.
Justin Seely (12:57): If they did not get that number, he was coming to Texas A&M and he was going to do everything he could to not make them pay, but to, I guess, improve his [crosstalk 00:13:10]
Will McGuffey (13:09): Realize his market value.
Justin Seely (13:11): Yeah. Yeah. That's it. So, he ended up on campus very comfortable within. He made a very comfortable decision. And I think that helped him. There was never him looking back over his shoulder thinking, well, what if I would've done this? Or what if I would've done that? Or what if I... So, the days where it's difficult in college, he never was questioning his decision. He was at peace with his decision. And that's one of the main factors that allowed him to become the player that he is.
Will McGuffey (13:40): No doubt. No I think that's a trait that we see quite a bit especially for the high school guys that are coming up. And I think it's interesting because at the end of the day, your job at Texas A&M is to recruit the best players in the country and then go win national championships. And so, college is to me, are little conflicted in like, "Hey, how do we... Or at least outside in. There are conflicted and, "How do we give the guy the best information to make the best decision possible?"
Justin Seely (14:08): Right.
Will McGuffey (14:09): But ultimately, "How do we also get them to campus?"
Justin Seely (14:12): Right.
Will McGuffey (14:12): And are you guys able to actually provide them any guidance in that, because maybe they don't have an agent or maybe they don't have an advisor or parents that understand that. Walk us through that recruiting and not to give away your recruiting secrets or anything like that. But I mean [crosstalk 00:14:30]. Just on my level, how do you arm them with information? Because at the end of the day, the baseball world is better off when people make good decisions.
Justin Seely (14:37): Right? So for us... I don't mind telling you. So for us, you recruit the player, you commit the player, you continue the relationship with the family to the point where they get comfortable with the words that you're using with how you talk, how you speak, how you communicate. We get comfortable with how they talk, how they speak, how they communicate. And then when you get to pretty much like junior summer, going into their senior year, you start realizing, "Okay, this guy has a real future." Based off of where he is currently. And so we start the process of educating them on what the degree from Texas A&M provides them. That is number [inaudible 00:15:26]. Because we take baseball completely off the table at that point.
Will McGuffey (15:28): Yeah.
Justin Seely (15:28): Let's just talk about you as a student. Let's just say that you never, ever played baseball at Texas A&M. This is what the degree at Texas A&M provides you. Okay. And then you start adding the pieces onto it, now being a baseball player at Texas A&M, now playing in the SEC. Okay. National championships. Okay. Now, past that, now we start talking about the draft.
Will McGuffey (15:51): Right.
Justin Seely (15:51): And then we move to the draft component, there's a line of demarcation. There's a line where you are buying your way into the big leagues in the draft. Because to me, the way we look at the draft and the way we tell our guys, is they are paying you a retirement upfront.
Will McGuffey (16:07): Yeah.
Justin Seely (16:09): So, in Major League Baseball, your signing bonus, is not for you to go spend now, it is for your retirement when you get done. Because you don't get pension, you don't get any of those things unless you have a certain level of major league service. So there is no retirement. Right. Until you get to that point. Which they all think they will. And we all hope that they will. But the reality of it is that's not the case. So-
Will McGuffey (16:31): Yeah.
Justin Seely (16:31): ... That is the way we work on it. We do it in a big forum first with all. And then we start getting more player specific the longer we go and the closer we get up to them. And hopefully, also they're getting that information from another side as well. Right. So, that the inputs are adding up.
Will McGuffey (16:54): Yeah. What are some of the things... Because this is coming from somebody that, look I grew up in a University of Texas family. I didn't understand Texas A&M. I now live in-
Justin Seely (17:03): I'll hold that against you.
Will McGuffey (17:03): ... Baton Rouge. What's that?
Travis Chick (17:05): I said, don't hold that against him cuosin.
Will McGuffey (17:07): I mean, it's even worse. I live in Louisiana, have an LSU degree. My kids are... I'm raising them as tigers. But over my professional career, I got to take an inside look at Texas A&M and the unique culture-
Justin Seely (17:19): Yeah.
Will McGuffey (17:19): ... And everything that surrounds it. And how do you quantify what it means to be a Texas A&M graduate? Is there a way you do that? Because when I would talk to players and what it was like at Texas A&M. There's, great cultures. LSU is sitting here in my backyard.
Will McGuffey (17:34): It's a place like that too. There's all over the SEC University of Texas. But I always told guys, look, whether baseball works out or not. If you go to one of these universities, if you go to Texas A&M university, and you're a part of that team, you're a good citizen, you keep your nose clean. Even if baseball doesn't work out the way you want it to work out, you're going to have a successful life. How do you quantify that to an individual? How do you communicate that to them and get them understand? Because like I said, I was a grown up before I really understood what it meant and what-
Justin Seely (18:05): Mm-hm (affirmative).
Will McGuffey (18:05): ... The culture and the network, the Aggie Network really was.
Justin Seely (18:09): Yeah. So, we're one of the three largest universities now at this point, from an enrollment standpoint. But we were in a community. Right. So, we're one of the three largest universities with a community feel. So, I think it inherently builds this bond. I think that's what makes our Aggie Network different than everybody else. If you go to the University of Texas, you disappear into a city of... Whatever it is now. Two and a half million, maybe three million people or something like that. If you're in the FW area, even Baton Rouge to a degree is larger than college station. So for us, we have a community feel with a huge university and Oh yeah. On top of that, we have as many fortune 500 Aggies as there are any other university, and that's including Ivy leagues, oil and gas is huge.
Justin Seely (19:09): Obviously with the engineering here, business is huge here. Our medicine school is one of the top five. I think a public institution like business schools. So the Aggie Network is a tight knit community with big reach. And I think that's how we could describe it the best. I think for me growing up, Will probably a lot, like you. If you went to Texas A&M that would carry you a long way in Texas, but really more now because of the size of the university, it is a national and worldwide thing-
Will McGuffey (19:48): Yeah.
Justin Seely (19:48): ... More than it ever has been. So, that's the way that we attack it. That's the way we approach it. To me, we're definitely talking about reality. I'm not spinning a dream. I'm-
Will McGuffey (20:01): Yeah.
Justin Seely (20:01): ... I'm talking about reality.
Will McGuffey (20:05): I think that's important because, so often when we get families to decide they want to work with us prior to the draft it... Much like what you were saying is it really allows us to dive into... And we use the term quite a bit with our clients. Is the term human capital. Right?
Justin Seely (20:20): Mm-hm (affirmative).
Will McGuffey (20:20): And human capital is your ability to earn money. Whether it's throwing a baseball, whether it's hitting a ball out of the park, or whether maybe you're going to be able to use your brain and go out and make a lot of money. What we can do in some of these pre-draft decisions to help families come to these numbers, is we can actually go in and get a present value of a degree from Texas A&M or a degree from Vanderbilt, or pick a college, right?
Justin Seely (20:45): Right.
Will McGuffey (20:45): We can revalue that education. But we can also value the types of careers that stem from that education. So it does a really good job of giving you a present value of what your ability to earn income is, which should help you correlate a decision between, okay, what my bonus number should be. Because-
Justin Seely (21:05): That's right.
Will McGuffey (21:06): ... Like you said earlier, when you separate baseball, you're worth something. It's up to you to realize that, but when you can figure out what that number is, that's the decision that says, "Hey, am I going to college or is this enough to work?"
Justin Seely (21:19): Yeah.
Will McGuffey (21:20): I'd like to shift gears really quick and just talk about draft in this looming thing that we have over our heads still after a year, as COVID. For you guys-
Justin Seely (21:27): Yeah.
Will McGuffey (21:28): ... Obviously, the recruiting has probably changed quite a bit, especially with the eligibility requirements. What advice would you give the seniors this year who are trying to decide?" Hey, you know what, maybe I'm a second rounder."
Justin Seely (21:41): Mm-hm (affirmative).
Will McGuffey (21:42): That's where the baseball America, and who knows whether that's right or wrong? But- Justin Seely (21:47): Right.
Will McGuffey (21:47): ... What advice would you give to that fringe guy that's saying, "Hey, what should I do here?"
Justin Seely (21:52): I mean, there's a lot of advice and going back to one of the points you made earlier. Depending on how good a student you are, depending on the place that you're going, the degree that you're capable of getting just as a student. I think that that plays a large part into that.
Will McGuffey (22:10): Sure.
Justin Seely (22:14): Guys that make it to the big leagues to me, don't ever think that they're not going to make it to the big league. But the ones that are best prepared if they don't, are the ones that have actually worked at their craft off the field, as much as they've worked at their craft on the field. Right?
Will McGuffey (22:33): Excellent.
Justin Seely (22:33): So, you're actually putting weight and stock into those things. It gives you leverage. That gives you leverage. It's a big game of chicken when it comes down to the draft, like, "Are you willing to do this? Or are you willing to not?"
Will McGuffey (22:48): Yeah.
Justin Seely (22:49): And increase or decrease your value because the team is not going to pay you what you're worth if they think you will take less. So-
Will McGuffey (22:58): Yeah.
Justin Seely (22:59): ... That's the truth of the matter. If you're willing to sign for less, you may be worth $3 million, but if you're willing to sign for 750, why would I pay you $3 million? I might pay you one and you might be really, really happy about it in that instance. So, if I am that guy, I think there's a number of different factors that go into that. But to me, it always comes down to the same question outside of the education part of it is," Am I going to buy myself into the big leagues?" There's a line that a major league team is going to invest enough money in you, that even if you have a year where you hit 260 and hit eight home runs, and you have an injury riddled season, that they are going to give you the opportunity to move in the minor leagues-
Will McGuffey (23:48): And recover bad year.
Justin Seely (23:50): ... That's right. It gives you grace. If [crosstalk 00:23:55]
Will McGuffey (23:54): Yeah. I'm super glad you said that because for us, I mean, there is market value. Right? I mean, I did it. I got drafted. I got to the big leagues. I never once in a million years thought that I ever wouldn't spend a career in the big leagues-
Justin Seely (24:10): Right.
Will McGuffey (24:10): ... And I think anybody that ever puts on a glove or holds a bat that wants to have that career path, they probably feel the same way. And that's where I think this emotional disconnect is. It's, "Hey, I think that my market value is... I'm going to use Asa. Lets Call it $7 million." Right? I think that's what my market value is. But if you're not very well prepared going into the draft, you don't really know what your intrinsic value is. Right?
Justin Seely (24:37): Mm-hm (affirmative).
Will McGuffey (24:37): That's where an agent does a really good job in helping you understand what your market value is. And I'm sure the coaches probably also have insight with a lot of scouts to help you identify what your "market value" is. But-
Justin Seely (24:49): Yes.
Will McGuffey (24:49): ... Especially, college guys or high school guys. Both, I just feel like there would be... Players would be so much better served if they knew, "Hey, if I don't get three million out of the draft, I'm okay with that. Because guess I may be going to Texas A&M to get an engineering degree and go straight to work at... Pick a company, one of the fortune 500. Or I may be going to Vanderbilt and I'm going to get a law degree. And I know that my career path, my human capital is worth $8 million in present value." So-
Justin Seely (25:22): I'm sure.
Will McGuffey (25:24): ... To me, it gives people the confidence. And I loved the word that you used a minute ago, was leverage. Because that's where agents feel like they have you as they're able to have leverage against the team. But we all know it's a billion dollar companies negotiating with people that probably aren't even financially literate at this point. And so-
Justin Seely (25:44): Correct.
Will McGuffey (25:46): ... We often argue, the more information that you have, and I'm glad you said that earlier, the more information they have the better. And obviously you just want to be sensitive to your time. Is there anything else that you would really want to hit on before we start to trying to wrap this thing up?
Justin Seely (25:59): Yeah. Well, I would say the one thing that comes up a lot, like if I'm talking to our recruits is, "Well, I can always come back and get my degree." Right?
Will McGuffey (26:10): For sure.
Justin Seely (26:13): "If I sign now, I can always come back and get my degree." Major League Baseball has this scholarship fund-
Will McGuffey (26:19): Right.
Justin Seely (26:20): ... I can see both of you grinning. The amount of that fund they get to use is minuscule by comparison to what's in that fund.
Will McGuffey (26:31): No doubt. It's so rare that it's used
Justin Seely (26:33): That's right. And Major League Baseball knows this. In the baseball world knowing the difference between an area scout, a crosschecker, a national crosschecker. The GM-
Will McGuffey (26:51): Yeap.
Justin Seely (26:51): ... Know who these people are. If I have an area scout telling me that there's a hierarchy to this-
Will McGuffey (27:02): Sure.
Justin Seely (27:02): I have another scout telling me, "Well yeah, you can always come back to Texas A&M and you can always get your degree and we can pay for it." Okay. He's correct. There is that Avenue. The likelihood of that Avenue getting used in reality is not very good-
Will McGuffey (27:21): Very small.
Justin Seely (27:22): ... Here's the reasons why for us is, once you are 25 or 26 and you get released and you're done, and you did not make it to the big leagues, or you made it to the big leagues just for a little bit. All right. You're going to have to go back to school-
Will McGuffey (27:39): Yeah.
Justin Seely (27:39): ...At 25 or 26. Most of the time... I would say a lot of the time. People have started a family at that point, going back to school-
Will McGuffey (27:50): You're telling my story right now, by the way.
Justin Seely (27:52): Okay. All right. So, yeah. You could know the story as good as anybody then, right?
Will McGuffey (27:58): No doubt.
Justin Seely (27:58): So you started a family. It is very difficult to go back to school. They have needs.
Will McGuffey (28:03): Yeap.
Justin Seely (28:04): Are you going to get back into Texas A&M at this point?
Will McGuffey (28:07): Right.
Justin Seely (28:07): Are you going to get back into Texas A&M? Is that going to happen? Right?
Will McGuffey (28:11): Yep.
Justin Seely (28:12): So, am I going to have to get a degree from let's say me growing up in Nacogdoches Texas, am I going to have to go get her degree from SFA? Which there's nothing wrong with that, but the difference between a degree from SFA and we're talking about finances, right-
Will McGuffey (28:27): Yeah.
Justin Seely (28:27): ... Pursuing that degree in Texas A&M, there's probably a pretty big difference right?
Will McGuffey (28:32): No doubt.
Justin Seely (28:33): Now, I'm getting that degree from SFA and yes, they may be paying me for that, but I have to pay for that upfront. And then they're going to have to reimburse me [crosstalk 00:28:44]. Yes. And if I took my bonuses as well, while I was in professional baseball, that knock that down as well-
Will McGuffey (28:53): Sure.
Justin Seely (28:53): ... From the amount that I have. And so the likelihood of guys using that, and why guys don't do that. There's a lot of reasons as to why. And I think we'll use that as a fallback to justify what they think they want to do with the upfront money.
Will McGuffey (29:09): Sure.
Justin Seely (29:10): In reality, for us from a college standpoint. Just I've seen it enough. I know enough. The Major League Baseball financial scholarship plan. The intention of it is fabulous.
Will McGuffey (29:25): Sure.
Justin Seely (29:26): Execution of it is not fabulous.
Will McGuffey (29:28): Right.
Justin Seely (29:28): It's less than that. So-
Travis Chick (29:30): Yeah. I know. I'm so glad you hit on that. I mean, like I said, you literally just told my story at 26 years old, I was released and baseball didn't care that I was a prospect at one point or a big leaguer at one point. At some point there was somebody younger and better and ready to fill my spot. And so literally had a family started, had to go back to school. And I'm so thankful that I had a wife that was able to help supplement that. Obviously I worked full time on top of going to school full-time so it's very difficult. But, I want to touch on real quick before we end this thing. One of the things you talked about was that hierarchy on the baseball side, you talked about the area Scouts, the cross checkers and the GM, I mean, going up through that ladder.
Travis Chick (30:16): And I think, if I'm shifting gears a little bit, I mean, there's that same hierarchy in finance and there's also that same hierarchy on the agent side-
Justin Seely (30:23): Yeah.
Travis Chick (30:23): ... And so often where I think that there's a disconnect and Will, could probably speak to this more than anybody here is, there are agents or advisors that are out there that actually are not certified agents. They're recruiters. They're going out to just try to get you in the door for the agency. And so often that's like, "Hey, this is my advisor." The reality is this isn't even a certified agent that's able to-
Justin Seely (30:49): Mm-hm (affirmative).
Travis Chick (30:50): ... Qualify and make good advice. On the finance side too, I mean, there's people that had actually qualified to do that. There's 300,000 financial advisors in the country. The reality is there's only about 80,000 certified financial planners. There's only about 2300 certified private wealth advisors.
Travis Chick (31:08): So, you're able to distil down where the expertise lies, if you actually know where to look. If I'm draft pick and I'm going... I want to ask questions. Which is why we're having this podcast today. I go to somebody like you, that actually understands what draft picks go through both on the high school side and the drafts and the college side. If I'm a draft pick and I'm looking for the best information I can be, I want to make sure that my agent can pick up the phone and call Mark Shapiro or GM because he's actually an agent. And then the same thing if I'm making financial decisions, I want to make sure that that person is not only qualified in their industry, but qualified in the baseball industry. So-
Justin Seely (31:49): Correct. Yeah. And to use your point, I'm going to use Will as an example. I know for our players that are in-house especially, if you are going to have an agent, your agent or excuse me, your advisor needs to be able to have somebody in free agency or on their roster that they want, because guess what? They pick up the phone for those guys.
Travis Chick (32:13): No doubt.
Justin Seely (32:15): They have the same amount of time that everybody else has, but they have a lot more going on with time than most do. You need somebody that when that phone rings and they see their name on it, they're going to pick it up and-
Travis Chick (32:26): That's a great one.
Justin Seely (32:28): ... You don't have that guy you're in a tough, tough spot.
Will McGuffey (32:30): Yep.
Travis Chick (32:32): Yeah. That's absolutely true. Because when you think about the people that actually make the decisions, everybody has their job, and there's a hierarchy when you're talking about professional baseball, but who's actually writing the check, who's actually making the decisions. You play the telephone game and the message changes a little bit until it gets all the way down. Instead of having all these filters in place, you want your guy to be able to go to the top and be able to talk to that decision maker about the real decision-
Will McGuffey (32:57): Mm-hm (affirmative).
Travis Chick (32:58): ... Have that line of communication open, and if you don't, there's something that always does get lost in translation. And so that definitely is an issue. The same thing on the financial side. And this is something that you look at as, who's worked with people in your situation, who understands-
Will McGuffey (33:15): Yeah.
Will McGuffey (33:15): ... The game of baseball, who understands what your career actually looks like, you want to understand, "Okay, my five-year outlook, if I'm drafted out of high school, if I'm drafted out of college, looks like this."
Justin Seely (33:27): Yep.
Will McGuffey (33:28): If my second year of pro ball, I've accomplished X, Y, Z, where am I now? And how does my financial plan change? Or does it stay the same?
Justin Seely (33:36): Right.
Will McGuffey (33:37): And is an inherent advantage of having people on the inside. You use somebody who has dealt with draft picks before coming in and out, seeing their stories of going to college or not. There's an inherent advantage of that experience in those same exact shoes, taking those families through those situations and understanding all the ramifications of the decisions, and every angle to look at when they're trying to make those decisions.
Justin Seely (34:01): If I can, and you may disagree. But I also think just taking the financial advisor person that your agent recommends is not necessarily... I'm not saying it isn't the way to go, but I'm not saying necessarily what.... You need to evaluate your options. You have options. You need to evaluate your options to Will's point, people that have actually dealt with guys that you want to be, and that you think you.... Right. They have dealt with those kinds of problems. But so when you've got a fire, when you've got an issue coming up, you've got somebody that has dealt with it.
Justin Seely (34:44): Travis obviously has been a player, Will has dealt with multiple sides of this. Well, from two very similar, but they have different sides-
Travis Chick (34:56): Yeah.
Justin Seely (34:56): ... Right? So, I want somebody that can see it from a multifaceted angles too-
Travis Chick (35:01): Sure.
Justin Seely (35:01): ... Right? So to me, that's the thing. If I'm making this decision, especially if I'm at the top of the food chain, when it comes to the draft. You have options. You don't just have to do what you are told to do when it comes down to advisement.
Will McGuffey (35:17): Yeah, that definitely resonates a lot with me because one of the... We hear this quite a bit in the industry, baseball is a game, but professional baseball is a business. Immediately, when you... I don't want to use the term higher. Right? But you agree to work with an advisor, essentially, you've made a business decision.
Travis Chick (35:39): Sure.
Will McGuffey (35:41): And I guarantee you that none of the players that actually sat down with that advisor hired that guy and never met with anybody else.
Travis Chick (35:49): Mm-hm (affirmative).
Will McGuffey (35:50): The top pick in the country is going to meet with all of the top agents and probably everybody else. I mean, he's going to figure out exactly... Kind of like What you were saying earlier. Who he agrees with, who he can get along with, who he matches with. Because this is a relationship business.
Will McGuffey (36:09): And on the backside of that financial side, so often we see the... And we reap the benefits of this quite a bit. And I don't want to discount that. But a lot of times an agent will just say, "Hey, you need to go with this because this is who all of my people work with."
Travis Chick (36:24): Right.
Will McGuffey (36:25): Which sometimes is fine. But again, it's a business decision. You probably don't want any of the players that you're trying to sign to meet with any other schools, but you realize that they are. And so-
Justin Seely (36:38): Sure.
Will McGuffey (36:39): ... I think, it's just helpful to bring into context like, "Hey, this is a business decision, go and find the best qualified people to help you make the best advice. One of the things that we see all the time is, you're about to be the CEO of a multi-million dollar company.
Will McGuffey (36:53): Your job is to hire the people around you. Your agent is the COO, the chief operating officer. You need to hire a CFO to be able to help you make really good financial decisions. You're surrounding yourself with a team of experts. So that the only thing that you have to do is go out and focus on how to be the best baseball player you can be.
Justin Seely (37:10): That's right. Yeah.
Travis Chick (37:12): Well, coach. Man, I sincerely appreciate the time. I know you guys are getting ready for a big season. Hopefully there's no shutdowns, like last year we can go out and play. But, thanks again for joining the MLB draft podcast. If there's anything else you'd like to close out on, I'll let you close it out.
Justin Seely (37:28): No, I'm grateful for the time. Appreciate you guys having me. It's a subject that I am obviously, or I try to make it apparent that I'm obviously passionate about. I'm trying to get as educated as I possibly can. If I pick up the phone and I'm talking to one of you guys, I always do get educated on it. It helps me. So I'm very grateful for you guys asking me be on and yeah. That's it.
Travis Chick (37:54): Awesome.
Justin Seely (37:54): Thank you.